Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Black Mariah Login/Join
 
Member
posted
I've heard this term in a couple on contexts, and was wondering if anyone knows the etymology. I know a poker game called (Black) Mariah, where the Queen of Spades(the Black Mariah) resets the hand for those still playing. I've also heard it used generally in a context meaning evil, traitorous, something like that.

I tend toward the opinion that the poker term came later, but it is often difficult to tell with such things.
 
Posts: 886 | Location: IllinoisReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
I've generally known it as "Black Maria". It is also the nickname for what the US also calls a "paddywagon", I believe.

Brewer's has an unlikely-looking origin that has many of the hallmarks of an urban legend.
quote:
The tradition is that the van referred to was so called from Maria Lee, a negress, who kept a sailors’ boarding house in Boston. She was a woman of such great size and strength that the unruly stood in dread of her, and when constables required help, it was a common thing to send for Black Maria, who soon collared the refractory and led them to the lock-up. So a prison-van was called a “Black Maria.”


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10940 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of pearce
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by arnie:
Brewer is interesting but does not give a date, though presumably used in the US before 1898 (publication). The OED agrees the meaning i.e. A van for the conveyance of prisoners. It's earliest published record is :

1847 Boston Even. Traveller 25 Sept. 2/3 A new Black Maria,..a new wagon for the conveyance of prisoners to and from the courts of justice. 1869 J. GREENWOOD Seven Curses of London II. vi. 87 The van that conveys prisoners to gaolBlack Maria. 1924 Punch 17 Sept. 309 A Black Maria containing twelve prisoners.

OED also mentions a " name used by soldiers in the war of 1914-18 for a German shell that on bursting emitted volumes of dense smoke, and for a German gun."

1914 Scotsman 12 Oct. 10/5 The 16-inch ‘Black-Maria’ shells of the heaviest German artillery.


There is no H in Maria, but her roots are clearly in American soil.
 
Posts: 424 | Location: Yorkshire, EnglandReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Here is a cite from a year earlier. Notice that the reference is to 'Black Mariah' rather than "a Black Mariah'. Wonder what significance that has.

The passage is speaking about how a policital party must bring, to the polls, supporters who are too apathetic to vote.
    ... the committee must wake them, shake them, and if still indifferent, force them into a carriage, like convicts in 'Black Mariah,' and drive them to the polls, nolens volens.
    - Republican Compiler, Gettysburrg, Pennsylvania, Sept. 14, 1846
(P.S. nolens volens = 'willy nilly'.)
 
Posts: 1184Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
And then there's this, from 1841, on the subject of wagering.
    and then we rode on, and thought of the Eclipse, the Henry, the Boston, the Gray Eagle and Black Maria and their owners, and the stakes which these had ventured and won ...
Makes it sound like most of these are some sort of racing vehicles (steamboats?). But 'Black Maria' has no "the" in front of it; could be a race horse.

Take Maria back to a tall tale that several papers published in March 1835. A Mr. Dolderum of Dolderumville mutters in his sleep.
    She is a beauty – by heavens. Slender neck, broad chest … Just the right age. …I must have her, let it cost what it will. But what will my wife say? But darn my wife! I don't care that [snapping fingers] for her … I must have Black Maria.
Mrs. Dolderum, listening, is enraged that her Mr. has a hussy on the side. "Oh the ugly brute! Leave me for a black woman! I'll tear his eyes out as he lies." But as it turns out, the female in question is a horse. "She's a beauty of a mare, and her owner calls her Black Maria."
 
Posts: 1184Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<Asa Lovejoy>
posted
I'm only familiar with the "paddy wagon" meaning.
 
Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Kalleh
posted Hide Post
So...is Black Maria a van for the conveyance of prisoners and Black Mariah the card game then?
 
Posts: 24735 | Location: Chicago, USAReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Well, having never seen the word in print before, I simply chose the mostly likely spelling. Is "Black Maria" pronounced like the spanish name Maria, or like the pop star?
 
Posts: 886 | Location: IllinoisReply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of arnie
posted Hide Post
I don't move in the sort of circles that have close contact with the 'paddywagon' meaning, but those references I've heard, and most referring to the card game pronounce it the same way as the pop star. I've have heard a few people call the card game "Black Mareea", though, but they are in the minority.


Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 
Posts: 10940 | Location: LondonReply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright © 2002-12