When asked about getting a "White House dog," Obama quipped something about getting a shelter dog, because most of them are mutts, "...and I'm a mutt." That made me wonder if the term, "mutt" is at all related to "mulatto." The latter word is not used nowadays. Why not?

Spanish mulato 'small mule; person of mixed race' < mulo 'mule' < Latin mūlus. Two other racial terms which have been retired are quadroon 'person with one black grandparent' and octoroon 'person with one black great-grandparent'. Creole is from Spanish criollo 'person born in the Americas but of European ancestry' < Portuguese crioulo dim. of cria 'person raised in the house, especially a servant' < criar 'to bring up' < Latin creāre 'to beget': cf. creche, cereal, crescent, sincere, etc. (link). The usual etymology for mutt is from muttonhead 'stupid, foolish person' < mutton 'meat of sheep' < Old French mouton, moton, from Post-Classical Latin multō 'sheep'.

The usage of this word is quite interesting. Outside of the US it is almost devoid of the stigma many Americans immediately react to. It used to be common usage in Brazil, and Obama himself was described that way when he was there.

Other terms are now more common in Latin America, although they pick out the same characteristics and have similar connotations (e.g. 'moreno')

Moreno < Moro 'Moroccan': cf. Moor. The name of the country Morocco is from the city name Marrakech < Tamazight (aka Berber) mur akush 'land of god'. Another term from Spanish for a person of mixed ancestry is mestizo < Late Latin mixticius 'mixed'.

Well, platonique (and welcome!), I don't think there is much of a "stigma" to the word Mulatto in the U.S., though I am only an N of one. Do others here think Mulatto has a "stigma?"

Mutt, of course, is mostly used (at least by Americans) to describe a dog. I, like Obama, have described myself as a mutt, though, since I have English, Scotch, Irish, Dutch, Norwegian, and German in my blood (probably lots more that I don't know about!).

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Mutt, of course, is mostly used (at least by Americans) to describe a dog.

And in England as well.

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Kalleh:
I don't think there is much of a "stigma" to the word Mulatto in the U.S.

Kalleh, I didn't mean to presume, I've just been told by a few Americans that it is something of a 'dirty' word. My own experience of the US has been that the topic of 'biracial' identity is somewhat taboo, as though pointing out that one is not 'just' black is seen as bad taste. But then I also find that such things are generally inscrutable from the outside, so perhaps I am thoroughly misreading the situation?

We do seem touchy about racial identity here. We tend to think of someone of mixed race as being of the darker-skinned half of the person's ancestry. Hmmm.... what would the psychologists make of that?

My father used a colorful expression for black/white combinations: "coffee and cream."

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don't think there is much of a "stigma" to the word Mulatto in the U.S.

At one time, mulatto, octaroon, and other racial distinctions were based on the amount of "white blood" a non-white had in their background. This seems to come from the slavery days and perhaps isn't so prevalent today. But I always thught a degree of opprobrium attached to all the words and doubt that they would have been mentioned directly to the person being discussed.

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Originally posted by platonique:
the word Mulatto
I've just been told by a few Americans that it is something of a 'dirty' word.

CBC News (Canada) discussed the matter, in response to a listener's complaint. It felt the word was acceptable. But see the link at the bottom, to its Language Advisory Board, which reached the opposite conclusion.

In the segregated South, people of color were classified as:
mulatto (1/2 black)
quadron (1/4 black)
octoroon (1/8 black).

To show how silly it was, if that system had continued till today, we would have:
Maroon -- Part Indian
Macaroon -- Part Irish or Scot
Poltroon -- Part Slav
Balloon -- Part Tahitian or Balinese

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In the segregated South, people of color were classified as mulatto (1/2 black), quadroon (1/4 black), octoroon (1/8 black).

Not just in the south. At http://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/1890a_v1-13.pdf, from the 1890 U.S. census, note the title of Table 10.

(The table itself begins on the fifth page of the PDF file.)

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Kalleh, I didn't mean to presume, I've just been told by a few Americans that it is something of a 'dirty' word. My own experience of the US has been that the topic of 'biracial' identity is somewhat taboo, as though pointing out that one is not 'just' black is seen as bad taste.

I've thought about it since I said "mulatto" doesn't have a stigma. I think I was wrong; I think it does. I will say that I've never used the word (just read it), nor would I. Therefore, I must think there is some stigma to the word.

When I started my current position, I was curious about the ethnicity of one of my colleagues. She is very pretty, with light brown creamy skin. When I got the nerve, I asked her about her ethnicity. She seemed shocked that I'd ask such a stupid question and said, "I'm African American." Yes, I do think we are sensitive here about race.

But Kalleh, isn't it odd that someone who may be 1/4 of a high-melanin race, and 3/4 of a low-melanin race will identify with the 1/4? Call me naive or gauche or whatever, but I just don't get it! And the situation has historically been with Indians (the real ones) not just Africans. Remember Kipling's tale, "Little Black Sambo?" Sambo was Indian.

I'd use the word 'mongrel' instead of 'mutt' for a dog of dual heritage...'mutt' feels more like an American English word to me. Don't know if that's true..

A 'mutt' isn't specifically a mongrel dog. It was originally applied to people (probably from 'muttonhead'), meaning 'stupid'. Dictionary.com shows that some dictionaries suggest it refers to especially (my emphasis) mongrels, which means that sometimes it doesn't.

Personally, I think of a mutt as a soppy-looking dog. Admittedly, most such dogs are mongrels, but not exclusively.

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Originally posted by arnie:
It was originally applied to people (probably from 'muttonhead'), meaning 'stupid'.

I didn't know that! That explains the names in the old comic strip, Mutt and Jeff . I discovered that Mutt and Jeff also means good cop/bad cop, and is Cockney rhyming slang for deaf. I already knew about the tall person/ short person meaning.

Silly me, I thought a muttonhead was a chief shepherd.

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Originally posted by tinman:
[I didn't know that! That explains the names in the old comic strip, Mutt and Jeff . I discovered that Mutt and Jeff also means good cop/bad cop, and is Cockney rhyming slang for deaf. I already knew about the tall person/ short person meaning.

The other way round for me! I knew "mutton"/"Mutt and Jeff" was rhyming slang for "deaf", but not about the "good cop/bad cop" routine or the "tall/short person" meaning.

According to the Casell Dictionary of Slang, Mutt and Jeff, in addition to those already mentioned, referred to "(1940s) King George V Silver medal Jubilee and Edward VIII coronation medals or ribbons or the 1918 Victory and Overseas medal or ribbons, which are invariably worn together."

Since these are probably excellent medals, they would likely be called the mutt's nuts.

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Originally posted by Asa Lovejoy:
But Kalleh, isn't it odd that someone who may be 1/4 of a high-melanin race, and 3/4 of a low-melanin race will identify with the 1/4? Call me naive or gauche or whatever, but I just don't get it! And the situation has historically been with Indians (the real ones) not just Africans. Remember Kipling's tale, "Little Black Sambo?" Sambo was Indian.

Not Kipling's: the author was Helen Bannerman.

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Originally posted by timon:


Not Kipling's: the author was Helen Bannerman.

Ooops, I'll attribute that to senility! The point's the same, though.

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But Kalleh, isn't it odd that someone who may be 1/4 of a high-melanin race, and 3/4 of a low-melanin race will identify with the 1/4?

I agree, Asa. I wondered why Obama, for example, is considered African American. After all, he is half Caucasian.

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I wondered why Obama, for example, is considered African American

Possibly because, until very recently, it wasn't a choice. Homer Plessy was 7/8 white.

If the "one drop" idea is correct (anyone with one drop of Negro blood is a Negro) then what is a nation where 12.9 percent of the population describes itself as "Black"?