Can we be sure that the word OE. word preost ultimately developed from the Gk. presbyteros and not from an Iranian form like Av. peresat "to ask" cf. NPer. parast "to worship"?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojobadshah,

Yes. It's much more likely to suppose that Romans, and not Iranian speakers, were in England influencing English 1000 years ago.

But the Romans in England were cultic Persians... Mithraists, and the L.L. presbyter meant "presbyter, elder." Not even close to what priest means to us today. The meaning of priest today is closer semantically to the Iranian forms. There is no evidence of the word priest in Latin.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojobadshah,

But the Romans in England were cultic Persians... Mithraists

Not all the Romans were, but a good number of the soldiers. While, Christians were also represented amongst the Roman and Romano-British population. The word prebyter occurs in the New Testament, along with similar words: episkopos 'overseer' (bishop), diakonos 'attendant, minister' (deacon, dean).

I am aware of no Persian inscriptions in the UK, even in the Mithraic temples (Mithraea) discovered so far. I would also like to see some evidence that Mithraists knew some amount of Persian. The grades we have preserved for us are all in Latin: corax, nymphus, miles, leo, Perses, heliodromus, and pater.

[Fixed fat-finger typo.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

quote:

Originally posted by mojobadshah:
the L.L. presbyter meant "presbyter, elder." Not even close to what priest means to us today.

It meant "elder, Jewish or Christian elder". That's pretty close.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: goofy,

Not even. Way closer to the Iranian forms. There's even a noun associated with the Iranian that means "worshipper." The following is dictionary.com's definitions. None of them indicate "elder," what so ever. Only religious functions.

–noun
1.
a person whose office it is to perform religious rites, and especially to make sacrificial offerings.
2.
(in Christian use)
a.
a person ordained to the sacerdotal or pastoral office; a member of the clergy; minister.
b.
(in hierarchical churches) a member of the clergy of the order next below that of bishop, authorized to carry out the Christian ministry.
3.
a minister of any religion.

I don't see how "to ask" and "to worship" are closer than "Jewish or Christian elder" to the modern meaning of "priest", but whatever. The real question is, did the Romans speak an Iranian language.

quote:

Originally posted by goofy:
I don't see how "to ask" and "to worship" are closer than "Jewish or Christian elder" to the modern meaning of "priest", but whatever. The real question is, did the Romans speak an Iranian language.

"Worshipper" most definitely is closer in meaning to "someone who carries out a religious function." Don't play. Mithraism is just a solid example of how the Iranian language may have made its way to England. Mithras is a Persian loan.