The closest I could come to was "commones": " And the mare that he commones with hym the mare he travayles hym." I knew Haberdasher was smart, but I wasn't sure he'd be that obscure!
Yes, but... is consomme French or English? Is ratatouille? What about bouillon? Bouillabaisse? Guillotine? Silhouette? Chauffeur? Chaperone? Angst? Schadenfreude? So many fuzzy grey areas!
I think Arnie's rules are straighforward. All of Hab's suggestions, with the possible exception of "schadenfreude", are English words.
However, I am, once again, stumped. I think I should take a break from this thread for awhile; I am getting worse, rather than better! Any hints at getting these? Clearly, "jumbling" the letters on a piece of paper, especially with these big words, is useless.
I wouldn't have ever got chickenfried. It is not a word in use outside America. Also, the dictionary entry cited shows it as a hyphenated word (chicken-fried), not as a single word.
Shortly after your objection to ratatouille due to its being non English, I ran onto chickenfried (no hyphen) in something I was reading. The word is used in western U.S.A. in referring to low-class eating places. "The Chickenfried Steak place" is also called "The Greasy Spoon."
This is the end of this game for me in view of my unfamiliarity with English English.
~~~ jerry (an interested spectator)
[This message was edited by jerry thomas on Thu Dec 4th, 2003 at 8:38.]
Posts: 6708 | Location: Kehena Beach, Hawaii, U.S.A.
Jerry, no one was criticizing you specifically. We were just trying to come up with some rules. If you note, I posted that I, at least, consider "ratatouille" an English word since we all know what it means and it is on lots of menus. However, I'd hate to see a French word that none of us know. "Schadenfreude" is a little more obscure, in my mind. Obscure words can be a problem, such as my post of "epicaricacy." Since many English words have an etymology in another language, it would be nearly impossible to say "only English words", and I don't think that's what Arnie meant.
Now, I would never have gotten "chickenfried" (it's not in my vernacular), so that has nothing to do with English-English versus American-English.
I got it before reading your hint. And it's a good thing, too, because HORMESIS isn't part of my working vocabulary yet, so it wouldn't have helped that much, except for leading to a search on these threads. Perhaps now it is!
It's interesting how Gilbert has used "vagary" only twice (?verification?) in the popular operettas, and both times put the accent on the wrong syllable. Gondoliers has "va-GAR-y" (and ho-no-RAR-y) to rhyme with gon-dol-IER-i. Iolanthe has va-GAR-y rhyming with fairy (and wary), along with quan-DAR-y and li-BRAR-y and se-mi-NAR-y.
Anyone remember the word for the poetic device of splitting words peculiarly or changing syllabic emphasis for purpose of making lines rhyme, à la Ogden Nash (and Wordcrafters making double-dactyls)?
Part of what you mention was discussed here: "unwary necessary vary airy arbitrary Fairy vagary quandary chary library Seminary!"
The humor you describe is what my father used to call "putting the acCENT on the wrong sylLABle." I'm sure there's some fancy greek word for it. I'm even more sure that I haven't a clue what that word is!
