I considered Lake Tahoe, Syracuse, Wappingers Falls, and a few other places with too many syllables or no rhymes, then decided that our latest Limerick Game location would be Poughkeepsie, which is in Upstate New York along the Hudson River.

For those of you on the other sides of the ponds, that's pronounced po-KIP-see, with a long "o" on the first syllable.

Sorry, I haven't mastered thatIPA alphabet yet!

Send me your entries by PM by next Monday a.m., placing Poughkeepsie in the A-Rhyme position.

Wordmatic

Ah! The Hudson River School of Art. I foresee a thirteen-limerick set celebrating the sexual escapades of the river artists.

Or maybe just Gauguin again.

Number one is on its way.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <Proofreader>,

I don't think I know anyone from Poughkeepsie, but everyone I know from New York pronounces it puh, not p-long-o.

Not that it really matters.

It only matters if you're going to try to rhyme the entire word.

Good luck with that!

Gee, Val, I'm from Ohio, but I lived in Upstate NY for 15 years. Are your New Yawkehs Upstaters or Downstaters? 'sfine with me if you pronounce it puc-KIP-see. I'm not going to judge on accents, sho'nuff. Be not afeared.

I have three so far from Proofreader, one from Jerry, and one from Richard and...one from you, and you, and you?

Keep 'em coming, all ye poets!

Wordmatic

And now you have 2 more.

Yes, I do--Thanks!



WM

I'm not 100% sure but I believe the late, great Isaac Asimov, limericked this very place name in one of his splendid collections.

One of mine was a rerun from OEDILF. I sent Wordmatic the one I liked and not the stupid one that eventually got approved. It was one of those God awful workshops where the approved limerick was, in my opinion, much worse than the original. In the end I just gave in.

Self-plagiarization?

Is an eleventh hour submission OK? I couldn't figure out how to post to wordmatic so I have sent it via Kalleh, who will workshop it for me and pass it on, I hope!

Well, Stella, it's good to see you here! I will relay it, but we don't workshop here. I had just mentioned the OEDILF workshop because it was probably one of the most dreary workshops I've ever been involved with over there. Once the limericks are posted, I will post the one that eventually got approved. I am quite sure people will wonder where that came from!

Yep, it's self-plagiarism at its best, proofreader!

Yes, please send Stella's entry on to me--I only have the ones mentioned before, plus Kalleh's that came in just as I was posting that message.

Are there any others hovering out there? Bob? Arnie? Shu? Caterwauller? I was busy all weekend, but sometime before the middle of the week I'll post them all and name a winner!

Wordmatic

It's a very fun word.

I couldn't believe Stella's stellar limerick. It trumps mine, in spades, that's for sure. I send it forward, and it certainly didn't need any workshopping.

quote:

stellar limerick

Why do mine never merit such compliments?

Thanks, Kalleh. The comment about workshopping was tongue-in-cheek (apart from the spelling mistake).

I checked your ‘alcohol’ limerick and I totally agree with you on that one. Of course the OEDILF is a (semi) serious project rather than a free-for-all but some people do tend to take it all bit too seriously. Reading through your forum, I think you guys have more fun.

Your limericks are excellent IMO, Proofreader, and they have a lovely light-hearted looseness you don’t see so much at the OEDILF.

quote:

a lovely light-hearted looseness

That's the very first alliterative compliment I've ever received. So much better than the usual "Oh,no! Not another limerick."

Awww, poor Proofreader. I like yours too! I've told you that privately, haven't I? Now, you could work a little harder on those double dactyls...

For a short while, after I was with OEDILF for about a year or so, I thought I wrote good limericks. However, the more limericks of others that I read, the more I realized that mine will do in a pinch, and once in awhile they're even good, but in general they're just okay. In other words, I've kept my day job!

I know you've said it, but did I believe it? Especially after I re-read "Dorking" today and checked the meter again. ARGHHH!
Luckily, my day job is long past and I can waste my time any way my wife lets me.

quote:

they have a lovely light-hearted looseness you don’t see so much at the OEDILF.

Alas, any attempt at that would be stifled by the OEDILF's workshops.

quote:

Alas, any attempt at that would be stifled by the OEDILF's workshops.

There are a fair few authors who have upped and left simply because they can't take the workshopping, seeing it as a criticism of their "perfect" creation.

Fortunately such histrionics are rare and I feel that the project is better off without such drama queens. There is little that any one of us can create that isn't capable of improvement. I am pretty good at limericks and have submitted hundreds to OEDILF. Some have gone through as written but most have been significantly improved by the workshopping process.

I would think that "light-hearted looseness" would be quite acceptable providing the limerick did what it was supposed to do - define, by explanation or usage, a word in the current alphabetical range, while keeping to the rules, grammatical and other, of limericks.

In short, simply because some people disagree with some workshopping, I do not agree that the process is unfair or over-zealous. And, to pick up on Kalleh's point, any author has the right to disregard any suggestions - there is no need to "give in". If you don't agree with what's being said then you don't have to accept the suggestions. The limerick may, or may not, get approved as it stands.

quote:

I would think that "light-hearted looseness" would be quite acceptable

To you, maybe, Richard, but not to a lot of the workshoppers.

As the old proverb says, A camel is a horse designed by a committee. That is probably what you get when a limerick is workshopped. That may be OK if you like camels but not if you're a horse lover. I don't mind someone pointing out technical errors but when you change content . . .

quote:

There are a fair few authors who have upped and left simply because they can't take the workshopping, seeing it as a criticism of their "perfect" creation.

Richard, I disagree with that and think it's unfair to some of my favorites who have left OEDILF because of the workshopping. Some, I agree, never wanted any part of their limericks changed, and they don't belong there. However, others left because they wrote perfectly good limericks, were open to some workshoppers, but just couldn't take the scourge of others. I won't name them, but their names are on the tip of my tongue (not literally, of course! ) Just wait until I post the "approved" limerick that came from that Poughkeepsie one; even you may change your mind. I said, both in the workshop and privately, that I didn't like the limerick (I even thought it a bit bigoted, as did others), and I wanted it changed. I was told (since it eventually was duel-authored) that I could take my name off of it, but that it had to stay. I was not about to remove my name from a limerick that I had started in the first place!

Yes, situations like that are somewhat rare, but they do occur over there. Your response to arnie sounds like it is only the arrogant writers who think their limericks are perfect who leave because of the workshops. That's not the case. Indeed, several limericists from Wordcraft have left just for that reason. The workshops can get tedious, especially when it isn't your life to write limericks for OEDILF.

I know I sound jaded, and really don't mean to. Generally I like OEDILF, and I even recommended it to both Proofreader and Valentine, privately. However, this particular Poughkeepsie limerick brought back to me all the problems with OEDILF.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

quote:

As the old proverb says, A camel is a horse designed by a committee. That is probably what you get when a limerick is workshopped. That may be OK if you like camels but not if you're a horse lover. I don't mind someone pointing out technical errors but when you change content . . .

I fear I disagree. There have been many limericks that have been improved immeasurably by being workshopped. And what is actually wrong with a camel? It's a brilliant solution to a particular problem. So, it won't win the Derby - but that's not what it was designed to do.

Many of those who have left OEDILF have done so simply because they wouldn't accept a single change to their prized limericks. If the content of a limerick is wrong, then it's wrong - and those who are not prepared to accept that they can be wrong must accept that workshoppers will keep harping on the inaccuracies. A recent author submitted this:

It almost kills spiders and ants,
And aphids and beetles on plants.
But for bugs that are four-eyed,
Benzene hexachloride
Destroys 'em; they don't stand a chance.

A fine submission but with two significant factual errors. Firstly Benzene hexachloride kills all bugs, it doesn't "almost" kill them and secondly, it's not just those with four-eyes (are there any such?) that it kills.

The workshoppers made several suggestions as to how this could be improved (it was quite easy to think of alternatives) but the author wasn't having any of it; his work was perfect and he wanted nothing to do with any changes. So he stomped off and left the project rather than consider any of the well-meant suggestions.

Remember, the OEDILF, for all its imperfections, is supposed to be an accurate dictionary and accuracy is just one of the things that workshoppers are looking for.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard English,

I disagree with Richard. There have been a number of occasions when I've almost left the OEDILF (and I've been there so long I have limerick number 2 in the database) because of other workshoppers trying to force unwanted and unneeded changes onto me. If it's factual error than that's fair enough but very often it's not.

When I'm back at a computer that lets me access OEDILF I'll post my all time favourite. I didn't just think of leaving, I thought of suicide.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BobHale,

Like Bob, Richard and Kalleh, I was a "founder member" of the OEDILF. Unlike them, I don't find writing limericks at all easy and only wrote five limericks. My efforts sat there awaiting approval for a couple of years; a few suggestions for improvement were made (by Bob, Richard and Kalleh) which I incorporated by and large. A few other suggestions for changes were made which were based on no good reason that I could see, and those I mostly refused. Eventually CJ instigated a drive to workshop old limericks that had been sitting there for ages from those that had only contributed a few and I got a flood of (to me) ridiculous suggestions that had to be countered before they were eventually passed.

I have no intention of repeating such a process in the unlikely event of my writing any more limericks; life's too short as it is.

I don't disagree that there are some dogmatic workshoppers who stick out for changes that are of little import - but there are, it seems to me, rather more authors who refuse even to consider quite reasonable requests.

The writer I cited above isn't the only one that walked out because workshoppers kept asking him to consider changes. I recall one that I workshopped that had significant errors that related to matters of fact and not simply style or preference, and he didn't want even to listen.

quote:

I disagree with Richard. There have been a number of occasions when I've almost left the OEDILF (and I've been there so long I have limerick number 2 in the database)

My "abominable" limerick is number 3. I wonder whose is number 1? There doesn't seem to be any easy way of sorting limericks by number - but it must be CJ or Kalleh, I would think.
Mind you, I don't know how the numbering system works; I don't think it's simply by submission date.

quote:

A fine submission but with two significant factual errors.

A fine submission? Unless you've misquoted it, line 1 is a disaster, meter-wise.

quote:

Many of those who have left OEDILF have done so simply because they wouldn't accept a single change to their prized limericks.

Yes, you have said this earlier. Some have left for that reason, though others have left because some workshoppers just won't stop. I've seen that time and time again. It's almost an ego thing with some workshoppers. They think if the person doesn't take their suggestion, it lowers their esteem, or some such reasoning.

On the other hand, are many limericks improved because of the workshopping? Definitely. I think the newbies to limericks especially benefit from the process. Some of the oldbies, not so much.

A rare chance to jump to Richard's defense.

To a Brit

it ALmost kills SPIders and ANTS

has perfect metre.

Let no man say I am not even-handed.

Though of course in my accent ants/plants isn't a rhyme.

And, come to that, chance doesn't rhyme with either of them.

Did you ever a limerick design?
A magnificent poem. you opine.
But others construe
Its contents you blew
And OEDILF ‘s great at making it shine.
So they’ll add an additional line
And now they declare it divine
But the meter is losing its tempo,
And words are now missing a rhyme.
There’s no word for OEDILF to define,
And the whole thing just looks asinine.
And I now won’t admit that it’s mine.
So give someone else credit. That’s fine.

quote:

A rare chance to jump to Richard's defense.

Oh, I see. I naturally stressed "kills" and didn't even think of another way. Okay, I'll give him that, though it certainly isn't that good to me. I like the rhymes (four-eyed and hexachloride), but the rest is quite mediocre, and it isn't even humorous (except for the fun rhymes). Plus, if it's factually incorrect, of course he must change it. It sounds to me that the place is better off without him.

There I go back into that workshopping mode again...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kalleh,

Just read "Limerick Game: Shoreham." I wish I had learned about Rhymezone before I got to Poughkeepsie. I guess that's my handicap.

quote:

Though of course in my accent ants/plants isn't a rhyme.

Nor in mine - but we accept different pronunciations, providing they are genuine differences and not just someone trying to force a rhyme.

When I said it was a fine submission, I didn't mean to imply that it was perfect, simply that it had much potential. Compared with many authors' first attempts it shone and, indeed, that same author submitted some other works, all good, but most of which needed work to make them perfect. He would accept none of the suggestions and, as I said, left the project rather than countenance any changes to his brainchildren. So now his limericks are left in limbo, unusable and unalterable.

You know, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "brainchild" in the plural before.

I think ‘brainchildren’ is very cute and suggests a very fertile mind. I also liked ‘olbies’. Is that the opposite of ‘nudies’, Kalleh?

Re my original statement about light hearted looseness. I didn’t mean that the OEDILF is all serious and intense, not at all. It’s just that there’s a job to done there. I think what sparked my comment was coming here and reading your lovely array of limericks that had no other job to do than provide a bit of fun. It just seemed refreshing.

In case my comment is seen as denigrating the OEDILF I should say that, despite some negative experiences, the workshops are usually really helpful and supportive. When you think of the hundreds of limericks that are on the go at any one time I guess you could expect a few blips.

My own writing has improved hugely from what I’ve learned there - there's only one limerick I’m not altogether happy with and I take some of the blame for that. I was too quick to agree to other people’s ideas then – now I’d just put anything like that on hold, for months even, and not rush into changes.

quote:

Though of course in my accent ants/plants isn't a rhyme.

How are they pronounced differently? I can't even fathom that.

I can't post the phonetics from here but the "a" in "plants" is longer than the very short "a" in "ants". Imagine it spelled plahnts.

Try http://www.stuff.co.uk/calcul_nd.htm

click the sound for "lat" to hear the sound in "ant" and "last" to hear the sound im=n "plant". More or less.

Just came across this:

English Pronunciation:

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it’s written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation’s OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation — think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won’t it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It’s a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough —
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!

Very nice, Proof!

quote:

the "a" in "plants" is longer than the very short "a" in "ants". Imagine it spelled plahnts.

It just seems odd to me that both don't have the "ah" sound, or vice versa. Perhaps it's because we already have an "ahnt" with "aunt?" I rhyme "aunt" "ant" and "plant," but I think that's a midwest accent. Many in the U.S. say "ahnt" for "aunt."

quote:

My own writing has improved hugely from what I’ve learned there

Oh, I agree, Stella. I feel that way, too...except for a couple of limericks (just wait 'til I post the approved Poughkeepsie one, guys!). I was being a bit too negative, I think.

quote:

I was too quick to agree to other people’s ideas then – now I’d just put anything like that on hold, for months even, and not rush into changes.

That was my problem, too. I wonder if that happens more with women than with men. That's my gut feeling, but I'm not sure.

Here's my bonus while we await the finale.
Based on the "There once was a girl named Gail ..... whose behind was in Braille."

There once was a young girl named Ewing
Who covered her chest with tattooing
Listing the rating
Of men she’s dating
With comments and praise for their screwing.

Wordmatic had no idea what she was starting when she started this thread!

Bonus Limerick ... just for fun ...

A descendent of Omar Khayyam
Preached philosophy down in Siam.
He said, "Some folks fear
I am not even here,
But I'm thinking, and therefore I am."

quote:

Just came across this:

English Pronunciation:

I don't know who wrote this, but I first saw it when my late father showed me a copy - and that must be at least a quarter of a century ago. It's too fine a work to be attributed to Aloysius Non.

I knew it was old, at least 25 years, since I just found it in some old papers. Unfortunately, there is no attribution attached.

To judge by the spelling (e.g., plough rather than plow) it originates in the UK or the Commonwealth rather than the USA.