On saturday, ZMJ said the upper garment that an Indian woman wears, a Choli, is a "blouse" in English. I argued that I though "blouse" implied loose fitting, as "to blouse," or "become looser." We are both right. Blouse is the accepted translation for a Choli, but in other English contexts, it refers to a loosefitting garment for a woman's upper body. Originally it referred to a loose cotton garment worn by peasants.
I also said I thought that before missionaries, etc., Indian women were bare breasted under the sari. Cf. Wikipedia for Choli, for pictures of Cholis in Indian art.

It's all very interesting. Though almost all of my conversations were in English (except a few desperate uses of the Tamil ille 'no' with auto-wallahs), there was a lot of English terms in Tamil conversations I was exposed to, and a lot of Tamil and/or Hindi terms in the English. For example, dhoti was always dhoti (though in Tamil it's a veshti). The choli was always called a blouse in English. (I sat through several marathon sari-buying episodes.) And, as Missann says, the choli is quite tight-fitting. Women sleep in their saris, as men usually sleep in at least short pants or a dhoti, and often a banyan (or US sleeveless t-shirt, UK vest). Finally besides a dress shirt or two that was purchased for me for the two weddings I attended (all major wedding guests have their clothing provided), I also received a rather nice silk kurta (called by my hosts a jipa). Another accessory in Tamil Nadu is a small towel which reminded me of the advice of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe.

[Fixed typos and added link.]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zmježd,

I am sorry I missed the chat; it must have been a great conversation. The funny part is that, while I know of the "loose-fitting" definition of "blouse," most blouses these days are quite fitted.

How interesting that all major wedding guests have their clothing provided! Their weddings must be amazing. I had mentioned here before that Shu's parents, during a trip to India, had met a couple who were to be married; the bride and groom-to-be invited them to their wedding because it's good luck to invite a stranger. That wedding was the highlight of Shu's parent's trip.

quote:

Originally posted by zmježd:
For example, Women sleep in their saris, as men usually sleep in ... a bunyan (or US sleeeless t-shirt,

I think the US rednecks refer to that as a wife beater shirt. I assume it's because men so attired are often ill-tempered Schludwiller guzzlers.

How interesting that all major wedding guests have their clothing provided!

And, all the guests get a going away present. Mine was a cloth bag with a coconut, a betel leave, betel nut, and a ten-rupee note (approximately US$0.25).

a wife beater

I'd never heard this term until a teen-aged boy wore one to a dinner at his which I was invited to used it. I immediately thought of Marlin Brando as Stanley Kowalski in A Streetcar Named Desire. I have no idea how it came to be known as bunyan in Anglo-Indian.

Have our American cousins heard of the phrase "big girl's blouse"? It's used to describe a rather effeminate man - not necessarily homosexual; I believe the equivalent over there might be "pantywaist".

"big girl's blouse"

I'd never heard of it before. Thanks, arnie.

Nor I. As for "pantywaist," I have heard it used here, but only by men of my father's generation. My generation might say something like, "He's such an Old Lady," or "What a priss!" Don't know what my sons would say. I'll have to ask them.

Wordmatic

I was a little dubious about "pantywaist", as I, too, understood that the word had been in use for some time, so might not be a perfect match nowadays. "Big girl's blouse" is still in common use over here.

The term sounds as if it means a blouse for a corpulent or buxom female, not a man. How'd it come about?

No-one really knows. See the link to World Wide Words given by zmj earlier. I like the suggestion at the end:

quote:

... “he’s flapping like a big girl’s blouse”. This conjures up an image of ineffectualness that is plausible as a extended idea from which the current version could have derived.

quote:

"big girl's blouse"

I never heard the term but I agree that a "pantywaist" is not usually a homosexual. It is used to describe a man who is small and gentle natured. I haven't heard the term in years but I think that in my childhood, before we knew there were homosexuals, a bully might torment a smaller boy by calling him a pantywaist.