quote:

---

Originally posted by Hic et ubique:
Infallibility?
Pontifex Maximus
Speaking of birth control
Thus does advise:

"If you're not gifted with
Impregnability,
Inscrutability's
Probably wise."

---

Jerry, your last line, which I'm about to steal, inspired the following.

This in reply to the
Pontifex Maximus:
"Gals are delectable.
Hard to eschew.

Though you are rigidly
Antiprotectionist,
I'm imperfectible.
What can one do?"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh:

quote:

---

I can't help but think that this was an attempt to provoke an outraged response from me. I choose not to rise to that bait.

---

Shufitz is not that type at all; he never goads people...
It's been said that we all are three people: the person we see ourselves as, the person other people see, and the person we really are. I saw your hubby's praise of what I considered to be an awkward DD to be, to use your word, goading me. It's all a matter of perception though, for the record, I'll stick by it in anticipation of his response.

...as others sometimes do on this site.
Heh, heh! Heh, heh, heh!
Sometimes a little goading is called for. By proclaiming myself King of the Limerick Thread, for example, I was very intentionally drawing a huge bull's-eye on my royal self. Others accomplish this same artwork less intentionally.

I prefer for this to be a scholarly discussion,
As do I.

rather than pokes and prods at people.
You might want to allow some time to pass, so that we all may cleanse our minds of the unfortunate menage a trois image your limerick inspired, before you use phrases like "pokes and prods at people." (Just a suggestion.)

I cannot agree with you that meter in double dactyls shouldn't be perfect, considering the essence of a double-dactyl.
You missed my point entirely. The DD meter, as the rest of its format, MUST BE PERFECT. The DD is that exacting. My point was that, in my opinion, perfection may be approximated by a reading of the text with the stress falling when the DD insists it must rather than on where it would during normal conversation. A bit of a cheat, yes, I suppose, but not an out-and-out breaking of the rules. Again, just my view. We agree that perfect stress falling naturally is, of course, the best.

I especially find this curious when you are so bent on perfect rhymes in limericks, of all things.
Not just limericks but everywhere. Rhymes are rhymes while "near rhymes," "sight rhymes," etc etc are what give me that lovely "nails across the chalkboard" sensation.

Further, I think we can all freely admit that love of poetry, limericks, double dactyls, art, whatever--is in the eye of the beholder.
Of course. Plus, it would not be as much of a non sequitur as it might first appear to mention here that "Eye of the Beholder" was an excellent Twilight Zone episode featuring a pre-Beverly Hillbillies Donna Douglas (Elly Mae).

While, certainly there is a difference between Monet and some amateur artist, those kind of disparities in talent don't exist on this board.
??!!

When we drool over some and say nothing about others, well, it can't help but be offensive.
If I've offended anyone by NOT commenting on their writing may I both apologize and, at the same time, point out that my efforts to transform the Limericks thread into a writing workshop by just these means was met with, let's say, a less than 100% enthusiastic response. Much of what has been written since my abdication has been first rate and certainly no less so for my not having proclaimed it as such. J.T. in particular came in right about that time and I've enjoyed much (but certainly not all; watch your DD format, J.T.!) of what he's contributed since then.
I "drooled over" the three people I did because of the consistently high quality of the work, in my opinion, that they have presented. I think I have pretty much praised everyone at one time or another including, repeatedly, yourself for individual efforts. J.T.'s DD that Shufitz lavished praise upon began "Essayist Messiah-ist" which hit my ear like an ice pick so I said nothing. BUT his limerick which ended "For a 'hit' on a 'bud' is a 'toke'" was, to me, nothing short of brilliant (perfect meter and rhyme, fanTAStic wordplay) so I said so.

Sorry, that's just my opinion.
I used to have a saying "Well, you're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it might be" that I used to bring out when I deliberately wanted to piss someone off. I am specifically NOT using it here.

Peace?

---

[This message was edited by C J Strolin on Mon Apr 21st, 2003 at 17:13.]

quote:

---

I especially find this curious when you are so bent on perfect rhymes in limericks, of all things.
Not just limericks but everywhere. Rhymes are rhymes while "near rhymes," "sight rhymes," etc etc are what give me that lovely "nails across the chalkboard" sensation.

---

For your homework, read and translate the new signature line below. It was after all chosen with you in mind.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BobHale:
Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

---

My guess, based on an educational background completely devoid of Latin classes, would be something along the lines of "No doubt! If the meter's not home ("habet" = "habitation," i.e. "If the meter's not there") it's not a poem."

I doubt that this is exactly correct but it rhymes and that should count for something...


(What would the Latin be for "If the rhyme doesn't fit, you must acquit"?)

quote:

---

Peace?

---

Of course. I often feel the need to speak out, be it at home, at work, or here...and I did that. You must realize that double dactyls are rather new to some of us, and, considering that, I think the creativity here by all has been just wonderful. Further, to me, when the meter isn't followed, it is a nice verse, but not a double dactyl. Now--I had to learn that. Look at some of my first ones. I read the Web about double dactyls and admired some of the best, learning to absolutely love them. I find it interesting that you see this big disparity in quality of double dactyls ("??!!"), when one of people you lauded for the double dactyls had never even written one here (i.e. museamuse). Now, muse's limericks are wonderful, I agree.

Now, perhaps my love of double dactyls has gone a bit far. I found myself up at 4 am this morning writing this one!

Dactalee, Schmactalee
Women on Wordcrafter
Write double dactyls, en-
Joying the verse.
All should be judged using
Asexuality.
Judge us as equals or
Kalleh will curse!

Perhaps I should be admitted to Chicago's Double Dactyl Insane Asylum** for dactyl insanity (oh, no, there's that darned meter again....!!!!)

**CJ, just to let you know that the Dactyl Insane Asylum doesn't really exist. It's a joke, it's humor! I know how you always take everything so seriously, so I thought I'd give you a heads up on that!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh:
**CJ, just to let you know that the Dactyl Insane Asylum doesn't really exist. It's a _joke_, it's _humor_! I know how you always take everything so seriously, so I thought I'd give you a heads up on that!

---

Kalleh, you are once more, God knows how, confusing me with R.E. Would it help if I took to wearing my crown again? (Good DD, though!)

And Museamuse, you have been challenged!! Your first double dactyl will be expected within the week.


(And, by the way, yes, it is still Monday, by my calendar anyway. I really am trying to stick to my one-day-a-week posting schedule...)

Royalty Loyalty
Order of the Garter
Selected a motto
Fitting response

Useful for here and now
francofilaceously
(graciously?) ...honi soit
qui mal y pense"

quote:

---

Kalleh, you are once more, God knows how, confusing me with R.E.

---

Believe me, there is no way that I could confuse you with Richard! This, my dear CJ, is commonly known as sarcasm! Did you miss that thread? After all, you, time and time again, accuse many of us of not having a sense of humor.

Loopily Floopily
Dactyl insanity,
New diagnosis for
DSM IV.
Patients complain that they
Speak rhythmatically.
Dactylability
Flows evermore!

Yes, yes, Shufitz. I can read your mind, my dear. Those words are coinages! Oy vey! The aggravation I experience on this site!

Higgledy Piggledy
Simon T. Weisenthal
Hunted war criminals;
He was a threat!
One hundred one thousand
Nazis arrested. Let's
Hypermnesically
Never forget!

h t t p :
//
w w
w .
wordcraft.infopop
(you know the rest of)
Wonderful bulletin
Board that we've wrought!

[to be read as:
Aitch tee tee pee colon
Forward-slash forward-slash
Double-u Double-u
Double-u dot ...
etc.

Uhhh, Hic?

There's no www in the adress to this website...

pickety pickety
h t t p :
//
wordcrafters' fun

wordcraft.infopop
(you know the rest of it)
Edited bulletin
Board Number One

TrossL, granted that the trip-dub isn't needed for this site, I found that you can put it in and the link will still work. Try it, or just click here, see what you get, and then check what's in your browser window.

It suprised me too.

Prettily Dittily
Jennifer Aniston,
Strikingly beautiful
Starlet of Friends,
Eats almost nothing. Her
Waist is so slender, it's
Infinitesimal.
Jealous? Depends!

quote:

---

Prettily Dittily
Jennifer Aniston,
Strikingly beautiful
Starlet of Friends,
Eats almost nothing. Her
Waist is so slender, it's
Infinitesimal.
Jealous? Depends!

---

EDIT: (and others)


Far be it from me to be a nitpicker [Who? Me? Never! ] but the "official" definition of a D-D wants it to be the sixth line that has the single word, not the seventh...

Really???? I didn't know that! I thought it could be either line 6 or 7. Shufitz, how could you lead me astray?

Thanks so much, Haberdasher. How about a double dactyl from you?

quote:

---

How about a double dactyl from you?

---

Double-dactylity?
Such haberdashery
Doesn't come readily
Out of my hat.

Trying to force it un-
Characteristically
Only gives doggerel.
(Something like that)

A little research shows my prescriptivist side. I am sure the "strict" definition requires the single double-dactylic word to be on the sixth line, but usage triumphs, as always. The preponderance of definitions demands only that it be "somewhere in the second verse," and the more rigid ones want it "in the sixth or seventh line."

Objection withdrawn.

Haberdasher, as you may have read in this thread, I have become a stickler about double dactyls...therefore, I will only put the 6-syllable word in the 6th line from now on. And, 25 lashes with the wet noodle to Shufitz!

By the way, I loved your double dactyl! You are quite modest, my friend.

I visited the new Saatchi Gallery on Thursday.

Artistry-Butchery
Hirst D. and Emin T..
Cut up dead animals
Mess up a bed
Charles Saatchi, a man whose
Money seems limitless
Unparsimoniously
Parts with the bread.

My review of the gallery is now on my weblog, the second link below will take you to it.

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Shufitz, how could you lead me astray?
and
25 lashes with the wet noodle to Shufitz!

---

Ever notice that it's always the husband's fault?

It seems that the one-word line may be the 5th, 6th or 7th, despite self-styled authorities who say otherwise.

According to the web, the ultimate authorites are Hecht, Pascal and Hollander: "The form was invented by Anthony Hecht and Paul Pascal, as documented by Hecht and John Hollander in their compilation, 'Jiggery-Pokery: A Compendium of Double Dactyls' (Athenaeum, New York, 1967)."

And per another source: "The rules of the double dactyl are set forth in the classic Jiggery Pokery, ed. Anthony Hecht and John Hollander, Atheneum, 1967. ... the fifth, sixth, or seventh lines must be entirely composed of a single, double-dactylic word."

Though 6th is most common, I've found Pascal and Hollander examples using the 5th, and Hecht and Hollander examples using the 7th.

So let freedom reign!

Didn't I say that already, sorta?

shoofitzy doofitzy
master kalleh-grapher
don't question dactyl rules
in illinois

fifth sixth or seventh line
threatens tranquility
intradomestically
go for the joy

Not that I would ever want to spoil a good thing, but this idea has been floating around my head:

I don't, but does anyone have the imagination to combine a double-dactyl with an acrostic?

Numbledy Pumblety
Otto D Preminger
Never permitted his
Servants to fly.
Even the waterboy
Naturopathically
Seemed to resent when he
Even walked by.

Well, I told you I hadn't the imagination. And Otto Preminger didn't have a middle name, either, did he? But it _is_ nonsense, just as it says it is...

So. Surely among us there are people who can really make something of it. Yes? :-)

Haberdasher, fantastic job, but that's quite a gauntlet you've thrown down. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try.

But this thread began, before your time, with an example of an acrostic DD.

quote:

---

Originally posted by shufitz:
Haberdasher, fantastic job, but that's quite a gauntlet you've thrown down. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try.

But this thread began, before your time, with an example of an acrostic DD.

---

It did?

quote:

---

Viggery-pokery
Nabokov, Vladimir
Authors Lolita, a
Best-selling work.
Ode to a 12-year-old
Kid who's obsessing an
Overlibidinous
Voyeur and jerk

---

NABOKOV Am I missing something? Or is that a real word?

haberdasher, you're more talented than you let on!

Happily, Hoppily
Dear Haberdashery,
Welcome to Wordcrafter;
Love your great posts!
But, I must testify
Antagonistically.
Adding acrostics would
Limit my boasts!

Double dactyls stretch my brain as it is. Perhaps TrossL? Or CJ? Or Jerry?
P.S. Note my 6th line?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Morgan:

quote:

---

_ V_iggery-pokery
_N_abokov, Vladimir
_A_uthors Lolita, a
_B_est-selling work.
_O_de to a 12-year-old
_K_id who's obsessing an
_O_verlibidinous
_V_oyeur and jerk

---

_NABOKOV_ Am I missing something? Or is that a real word?

---

You're missing something - the name in line two !

Non curo ! Si metrum no habet, non est poema.

Read all about my travels around the world here.
Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog.

Iggledy friggledy
Nickie Copernicus
Telescope neophyte
E-mails this verse

Reviewing the heavens
Nongeocentrically
Earth is in orbit in
The universe

Tennyson venison
Alfred Lord Tennyson
Nagged by the Monarch for
Notions in verse

Yelled "Enoch Arden" with
Sincere alacrity
Obsequiosity
Needing a nurse.

Allomorphologist
Cryptographologist
Reaching for syllables
Out of the blue

Starting initially
Thinking fallaciously
Inconsequentially
Catching a few

NICE, Jerry :-). Self-referential, even.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kalleh:
Double dactyls stretch my brain as it is. Perhaps TrossL? Or CJ? Or Jerry?

---

Lovely!!

I stay away for a week and return to find that not only am I one of three individuals fingered (!!) for this outrageous challenge but that the other two have already accomplished it!

TrossL, my first reaction to your Peter O'Toole piece was something along the lines of "My God, was that ever a stinker!" Then I realized that it was an acrostic and understood your comment. And J.T., my goodness, yours were first rate! You people have entirely too much time on your hands.


I may be back next week with an acrostic double dactyl or, more likely, not.

quote:

---

You're missing something - the name in line two !

---

Duhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Here's one that fits in another thread.

Now, that is great, TrossL!

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Sun May 4th, 2003 at 7:19.]

Writer of Sci-Fi was
Asimov, Isaac. He
Taught biochemistry,
Once, at B.U.

Also he noted that
"Para-dichloro-
aMino-benzaldehyde"
Fits in these, too.

(I don't know whether it's all true or not, but it makes a good story! The BU part is right, at least.)

[This message was edited by haberdasher on Sat May 3rd, 2003 at 20:39.]

Higgledy piggledy,
Marion Morrison.
Know you that name? Are you
Racking your brain?

Hollywood thought it lacked
Marketability;
You perhaps know him as
Actor John Wayne.

quote:

---

Originally posted by jerry thomas:
Iggledy friggledy
Nickie Copernicus
Telescope neophyte
E-mails this verse

Reviewing the heavens
Nongeocentrically
Earth is in orbit in
The universe

---

Very nice, Jerry, and you'll be pleased to know that you can eliminate the strain in the second line. "Nicolas Copernicus" is the latinized form of the gentleman's name, as used in scholarly publications of the time. His actual name, however was a perfect double-dactyl fit: Nicolaus Koppernigk.

I know that Jerry wrote a double dactyl on Margaret Mitchell, but, hey, that was back in March. I have had ohrwurm dactylitis lately (nice coinage, don't you think? ), and this one has been going through my brain:

Fiddaly Diddaly
Margaret Mitchell wrote
"Gone with the Wind" where the
South she did slam.
Uncompromisingly,
Scarlett O'Hara loved
Rhett, but he told her, "I
Don't give a damn!"

Wordnerd!!! Your John Wayne DD is perfection!!
Rhyme, meter, funny punchline, informative...
I feel like falling on my knees, ala Wayne & Garth, and shouting "We're not worthy, We're not worthy..."

quote:

---

Originally posted by wordnerd:
Higgledy piggledy,
Marion Morrison.
Know you that name? Are you
Racking your brain?

Hollywood thought it lacked
Marketability;
You perhaps know him as
Actor John Wayne.

---

How glad I am I didn't declare myself Emperor of this thread! I'd be griping and moaning about each and every imperfect double dactyl which, frankly, takes in a majority of what we've come up with here. Mine included, I'm quick to add. By its definition (which is lengthly - see this thread's beginning) anything less than 100% adherence to all rules equates to failure. Sorry, folks, but these aren't limericks we're dealin' with here!

Wordnerd, I will agree with TrossL's glowing review of your John Wayne piece if you convert that awkward third line (sorry - I calls 'em as I sees 'em) to:

Higglety Pigglety
Marion Morrison
Know that name? Are you now
Racking your brain?

in order to improve the syntax and meter. Otherwise, yes, it's a definite winner!

CJ, I agree with you about the 3rd line being a bit awkward because of the question mark. Yet, as wordnerd wrote it, the stresses are correct: know you that name? Are you
Duh duh duh duh duh duh

Your suggestion, I fear, is worse, at least in the way I stess the words. I would say:

Know that name? Are you now
Duh duh duh duh duh duh

And, you know me....meter is first and foremost in these, along with a name in the second line and the 6-syllable word in the 5th, 6th or 7th line (sorry, haberdasher! ) I have seen some real stinkers elsewhere online! We definitely have some top-rated ones. While wordnerd's isn't perfect because of the question mark, it is damned good!

My very favorite here, to date, is the one by Hic.

[This message was edited by Kalleh on Tue May 6th, 2003 at 14:51.]

Patience (not Pinafore)
Gilbert and Sullivan
Dactyls are everywhere
Even today

Not that it's relevant
Ultra-aesthetical
Reginald Bunthorne once
Heard it this way:



If you want a receipt for that popular mystery,
Known to the world as a Heavy Dragoon,
...
Take all the remarkable people in history,
Rattle them off to a popular tune.
...
The pluck of Lord Nelson on board of the Victory--
Genius of Bismarck devising a plan--
The humour of Fielding (which sounds contradictory)--
Coolness of Paget about to trepan--
The science of Jullien, the eminent musico--
Wit of Macaulay, who wrote of Queen Anne--
The pathos of Paddy, as rendered by Boucicault--
Style of the Bishop of Sodor and Man--
The dash of a D'Orsay, divested of quackery--
Narrative powers of Dickens and Thackeray--
Victor Emmanuel -- peak-haunting Peveril--
Thomas Aquinas, and Doctor Sacheverell--
Tupper and Tennyson -- Daniel Defoe--
Anthony Trollope and Mister Guizot!

Take of these elements all that is fusible
Melt them all down in a pipkin or crucible--
Set them to simmer, and take off the scum,
And a Heavy Dragoon is the residuum!



If you want a receipt for this soldier-like paragon,
Get at the wealth of the Czar (if you can)--
The family pride of a Spaniard from Aragon--
Force of Mephisto pronouncing a ban--
A smack of Lord Waterford, reckless and rollicky--
Swagger of Roderick, heading his clan--
The keen penetration of Paddington Pollaky--
Grace of an Odalisque on a divan--
The genius strategic of Caesar or Hannibal--
Skill of Sir Garnet in thrashing a cannibal--
Flavour of Hamlet -- the Stranger, a touch of him--
Little of Manfred (but not very much of him)--
Beadle of Burlington -- Richardson's show--
Mister Micawber and Madame Tussaud! Ah!

Take of these elements all that is fusible
Melt them all down in a pipkin or crucible--
Set them to simmer, and take off the scum,
And a Heavy Dragoon is the residuum!

True, I don't mind "bending" the natural stress of the text a bit to fit the DD meter while you're more a stickler on this point.

The question mark in the third line doesn't bother me but what does is the fact that "Know you that name?" is a phrasing no one would use in normal conversation. It's contrived and used for the sole purpose of fitting into the very rigid DD structure.

I would see my alternative as being more like: Know that name? (equal stress with "Know," maybe a just tad less to conform to the DD meter) Are you now... etc.

"Are you now" seems natural enough to my ear and, while "Are you now" does as well, this second way seems to cue the rejoinder "or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party." I'd be interested to hear Wordnerd's take on all this.


How's this for an alternative?

Higglety Pigglety
Marion Morrison.
If he's unknown to you,
Let me explain.

Hollywood thought he lacked
Marketability;
You perhaps know him as
Actor John Wayne.


It glistens!

Cinema Minima
Norma Jean Mortenson
Factory worker was
Missing her beau

Caught in a snapshot by
Modelphotographer
Sought-after cover girl
Marilyn Monroe

Love it, Jerry. I hope to match yours with one about Pamela Anderson. Now wouldn't that be be a fine pair?

Love it, haberdasher!

Oh, CJ, I really don't mean to be such a wet blanket, and, yes, I have an opinion for everything! Your second rendition is much better.....however, for some reason I say it as: "
If he's unknown to you". However, I know that I should talk with my "Margaret Mitchell wrote", so there you have it. I find the names so hard to find.

Jerry, that is just great!

quote:

---

Originally posted by shufitz:
...Pamela Anderson. Now wouldn't that be be a fine pair?

---

Not to cross-polinate threads but this brings to mind the oldie:

There once was a woman named Claire
Who possessed a magnificent pair,
Or that's what I thought
Till I saw one get caught
On a thorn and begin losing air.


For 20 minutes now, I've been struggling to come up with an updated version of this classic but there just aren't that many rhymes out there for "silicone."