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Additionally, there are multiple spellings of "pizzaz" including the one I opt for, "pizzazz," only because this makes the word unique in all the English language in that it is made up of more than 50% the letter Z. (That is, of course, not counting the onomatopoetic "Zzzzzzz," a representation of snoring seldom seen outside of comics.) This would make for a great bar bet if you ever encountered a bar devoted to language lovers. (I've also seen "pizaz" but that looks absolutely anemic!) | |||
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Sorry, Tom, But It's Been All Downhill Since "Rainman" Matrixy, Schmaytrixy, Tom Cruise, the movie star Dumped Nichole Kidman then Went on his way. Since then her life has been GoldenGlobe-ifferous But of his films there is Not much to say. I recently introduced KHC to the delights (??!!) of the double dactyl, a form she is presently tackling with mixed feelings. We've all been there, right? I mentioned that occasionally these things seem to write themselves. The above ditty took, in all, about two minutes to compose and a fair portion of that was in the coinage of that sixth line. Yes, yes, I know. It's not exactly in the OED. Call it "poetic license." | |||
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I am working hard to understand this Double Dactyl strategy.. please be kind. My DD was edited (gently) by the Master of All Masters, CJ..who assures me I will be doing these in my head every time I hear Dah-duh-duh, Dah-duh-duh.. We'll see.. Flydilly, Skydilly, Wilbur and Orville Wright. Can a man be a bird? Can we take flight? Energized, curious -aerodynamically- To them invention was Total Delight! I hope I get the gist of this soon.. it's driving me crazy.. Y'all are all so good! | |||
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Oh, KHC, that is wonderful! You are definitely on the right track. It takes a lot of guts--I remember! | |||
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When KHC told me that she was going to attempt a DD based on the Wright Brothers, my first thought was, "Oh, Jeeze. She doesn't have the format down right. There's no way that 'The Wright Brothers' is going to fit into that dreaded 'DA-duh-duh DA-duh-duh' meter." Then I realized that "Wilbur and Orville Wright" had six syllables and, while not exactly fitting the DddDdd meter (Can we agree to call it that? It's easier to type.) it was workable. So I stole it... Not Many People Know That Orville Wright Invented the Seat Belt Which was First Only a Length of Rope With Which He Tied Himself into the Pilot's Seat of Early Aircraft to Keep From Being Bounced Out of Said Seat During Rough Landings and While This Little Factoid Has Nothing to Do With the Double Dactyl Itself, I Do Like to Title My DDs and There Wasn't Room Within the Eight Lines to Talk About Damn Seat Belts, So Sue Me! Higgledy, Piggledy, Wilbur and Orville Wright First in the world to a- Chieve powered flight. Last to ensure, with flights Ultra-simplistical, That all their bags landed With them all right. Points off for: 1.) The split "achieve" between lines 2 & 3. (Not exactly against the rules but a bit jarring to the eye.) 2.) "Ultra-simplistical." A bit of a stretch. 3.) Overly long title. Points added (though not many) for: 1.) Topicality. (recent anniversary of the first flight) 2.) Semi-clever premise regarding lost baggage. All in all, I'd give it a C+ which I admit is generous but I'm a bit out of practice. And well done KHC! These things can be more than a little bit daunting. We all look forward to your next efforts in this genre. | |||
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KHC, CJ seems to think he's the judge of everyone else here. Just so you know: he's entirely self-appointed. Pay no attention to the man behind that curtain!  | |||
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...and then sometime we play fast-and-loose with the rules so the words and rhythms will fit the other rules. For example, you could re-cast "Wilbur and Orville Wright" into "Wright Brothers Wilbur and Orville..." which fits the scansion more exactly but does overflow into the next line. Win one, lose one. (I tend to be a stickler for strict rhythm as a fundamental property of the DD form. Other rules may be more flexible.) | |||
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Thank you Haberdasher and Hic et. U ! CJ doesn't scare me..  HaberD.. I love the new twist on Wright Brothers, Wilbur and Orville .. I think I'm getting the picture. | |||
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With your permission, KHC, here is another re-hash or your masterpiece. Higgledy piggledy Orville and Wilbur Wright World's first flyers in Ultra-light craft Early believers in Upwardmobility Even when scientists Thought they were daft | |||
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I like it, Jerry, especially "Upwardmobility" and "Ultra-light craft" and then "Thought they were daft!" Gosh, we are good, aren't we? We should work on getting some of these published!  quote:I agree completely with Haberdasher on that. | |||
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quote: The nitpicker in me still has two objections. 1) There are only five syllables in "Worlds first flyers in..." This could be rectified by changing one word to two, as in "...Were the first flyers in...." 2) The natural rhythm of "Wilbur and Orville Wright" has a heavy stress on the "Wright," at least as I pronounce it, and the DddDdd form demands a light one. That problem needs a little more revision to resolve. (Edit As CJ originally pointed out) [This message was edited by haberdasher on Fri Feb 6th, 2004 at 13:05.] | |||
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How about Wright, O. and W. (This is the result of a decision re revision to resolve) [This message was edited by jerry thomas on Fri Feb 6th, 2004 at 17:49.] | |||
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That'd work just fine. Now all we have is to figure out what "Owen W. Wright" is famous for... [ducking-for-cover-e] | |||
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I agree with Hab about the second line, but not about "Worlds first flyers in." To me, that has 6 syllables. Perhaps it is my pronunciation that's incorrect. I don't say "world" with one syllable; I use two. However, Shufitz pointed out that "upwardmobility" isn't a word. That's okay by me; I love its use! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh: I don't say "world" with one syllable; I use two. QUOTE]  How? Every silver lining has a cloud. Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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quote: Harumphhh! May I remind one and all (and particularly Hic) that it was the Limericks thread that I had declared myself Emperor of and that was only to stir some debate on the topic. TrossL was very briefly the Head Honcho of DDs, as I recall, before being somehow booted from the position by a party or parties who then decided not to ascend to the throne him/her/themselves. I may also point out that the only DDs I'm grading nowadays are my own although this recent affront to my regality elsewhere just may have the effect of bringing about a new realm here. My qualifications include, but are not limited to: 1.) A degree of proficiency in this particular art form, and 2.) I look great in ermine. We will take this matter into consideration and issue proclamations as appropriate. | |||
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I think Hic thought you were grading KHC's DD, CJ. I had originally thought that, too. He was trying to support our newest talent here! Bob, I say "wor---ld" Now, for a bit of cross-threading. It's not perfect, but it was fun. Unfortunately, "epicaricacy just didn't work! Brilliantly, Brilliantly Linguaphile Wordcrafter Hosts our community, Courteously. Yet, accolades to our People who post; they are Collaborational, Schadenfreude free! | |||
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quote: Try as I might I just can't make that into two syllables without adding another vowel sound wor - uld works but wor-ld ? I just can't hear it in my head. What's the second vowel sound and which syllable are you stressing ? Maybe I should wait until we meet again and ask you to say it. Every silver lining has a cloud. Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Higgledy, Piggledy, Englishman Robert Hale, Counter of syllables, Second to none. Ponders with Kalleh that, Incomphensibly, "Wor-uld" has two but yet "Fire" has just one?? Note to relative newcomers: About six months or so ago there was a thread somewhere that dealt with the "fact" (?? I'm still not convinced) that, technically, "fire" is a one-syllable word. And that's not just when it's spoken with a regional dialect (as in "Cousin Clem done brung the water hose cuz the barn was on fahr!") but in actual everyday use! Like I say, I'm not buying it. Then again, "world" to me is not "wor-uld" any more than "film" is "fil-lum." It's a Chicago thing, maybe? | |||
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Schlimmellich-schlammellich Jheem, Wortkraftmitglieder bevorzugt immer das Deutsche Gespräch. Zweifel über Wörter- abstammungechtheiten bringt ihm Schadenfreude - vielleicht hat recht. The stress falls in the wrong place in one line and I've stetched a bit in pluralising Echtheit (which I'm not sure has a plural, though if it did Echtheiten would be correct) but on the whole I'm quite proud of that. Approximate translation (not rhyming) Nonsense word, nonsense word. Jheem, member of Wordcraft, always prefers German conversation. Doubts about the genuineness of a word origin cause him to feel Schadenfreude (or maybe epicaricacy) but might just be right. Every silver lining has a cloud. Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. [This message was edited by BobHale on Sat Feb 7th, 2004 at 15:02.] | |||
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Oh, Bob, that is great! You have just posted the first German DD here! I am telling you, we are a talented bunch! CJ, CJ, CJ. How on earth can you say "fire" with 2 syllables (I do too, by the way. I had agreed with you in that thread!), but not "world." Those who agree with the dictionaries that "fire" has one syllable probably do say "world" that way. Oh, and "film" most definitely has one syllable; there is no doubt there. Do you say "world" like "film?" You see, I think it must be the "r" in world, as in "fire," that adds the other syllable for me. Now, maybe my definition, and yours, of 2 syllables differs. When I think of 2 syllables, I think of "heaven," while 1 syllable is "book." Do you say "world" more like "book" or like "heaven?" Yes, Bob, when we meet in April we will see. [This message was edited by Kalleh on Sat Feb 7th, 2004 at 15:09.] | |||
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Here, for all to see, is my lame 2nd Double Dactyl.. the rest of you are absolutely incredible in your DD talents. I'm ashamed. Stickely, prickily, Theodore Roosevelt. President, Resident, Carried big stick. San Juan Hill was his charge, Spanish-Americanly, Who would have thought that As young he was sick. I know that Line 7 is not exactly 6 syllables, but say it FAST! You guys have all have all been so great... I am ready for critique! CJ, don't read this! | |||
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quote: First of all let me say that it's great to see some recent members arrive and stick around. We have far too many who post for a couple of days then vanish. I'm not the greatest DD writer myself. CJ claims to take minutes and I have no reason to doubt him but the few I've posted have taken hours and never ended up perfect. I almost always fail to get the rhythm of the lines correct. (The German one took about three hours and still has a rather dubious German coinage & a problem with the metre) A critique then, as requested. Line seven's syllable count is, as you noticed, one short. Easy to fix though by changing "thought that" to "considered". Conversely line six is a syllable too long but can be quickly fixed by removing the "ly" at the end. The only serious problem is the same one that I often have. Line five has the correct number of syllables but the wrong stress. It's just too hard to force into the pattern when recited SAN Juan Hill WAS his charge This can't really be fixed without rewriting the line. (I'll let you work on that as it's your DD after all.) Still, all in all a fine effort and as good as the few I've ever completed. Every silver lining has a cloud. Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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As I have said previously, there can be no rights or wrongs about pronunciation, only differences. I don't know enough about American accents to tell but I am sure that someone there will know - what is Bugs Bunny's accent? My guess is New York, but I wouldn't put money on that. Certainly he pronounces "fire" as a two-syllable word as is, "...Hey mack, where's the FI-YER?" Film is pronounced as a two-syllable word by the Irish - "fillum", with the stress on the first syllable. In southern UK English both words are pronounced with only one syllable, as is "world" (it rhymes exactly with "whirled"). Richard English | |||
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quote: No, it's a double anapest. A troche is a reverse iamb. In tablular form we have iamb = da-DA trochee = DA-da dactyl = DA-dah-da anapest = da-da-DA Yes? Wouldn't it have been more fun if they were all self-decriptive, as is "TRO-chee"...do you think the Greeks pronounced them so, and not the way we do? [This message was edited by haberdasher on Sun Feb 8th, 2004 at 7:08.] | |||
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quote: I agree with Bob; it is sooo good to see you sticking around, KHC! Perhaps this works a little better? Spanish-American, (I love that!) Who would have thought that as Young he was sick. That gives you 6 syllables per line, and, still, the "Spanish-American" describes him. Bob, I cannot believe it took you three hours! Aren't you dedicated? I can't do them as quickly as CJ either, but I also don't spend 3 hours. Basically, I come up with a name or a 6-syllable word as I am doing something else, and then I start to obsess! Higgledy Piggledy, Jacqueline Kennedy, Nation's First Lady in More liberal days. Beautiful wife of our Thirty-fifth President, Sophisticatedly, Caused quite a craze. [Shu said that "sophisticatedly" is decent, but not perfect.] | |||
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It's uncommonly beautiful! Congratulations!!! * ** *** ***** ******** ***** *** ** * When I was in my late forties I returned to the University to get official certification as a teacher of Spanish language in Colorado Public Schools. One of the requirements was a Survey of English literature. It was there that I was introduced to the Double Dactyl, with the Beethoven one being the classic model. Colorado State University's Education Department was headed at that time by John Flanagan, PhD. Here, published for the first time, is my creation. Frantic pedantic man Doctor John Flanagan Teaching the students and Teachers to teach Finding the mystic key Surrealistically Letting ambitions be Well within reach [This message was edited by jerry thomas on Sun Feb 8th, 2004 at 13:55.] | |||
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quote: Well... I was working in a second language, inventing my own words (which is of course perfectly permissible in German  ) and watching consecutive episodes of Angel, Charmed and CSI:Miami. Nevertheless it was seven when I started the verse and ten when I finished it. The hardest bit was the invention of a single word to mean "the genuineness of the origins of a word" (Wörterabstammungechtheiten, which I am reasonably sure should really be either Wörterabstammungenechtheit or Wörterabstammungsechtheit, neither of which fit the metre nearly as well.) Incidentally if you work your way up from that link you get to some very interesting linguistics stuff including this, about the historical usage of "they/their" as singulars of unspecified gender. Every silver lining has a cloud. Read all about my travels around the world here. Read even more of my travel writing and poems on my weblog. | |||
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Speaking of gender-neutral pronouns, Michael Quinion has just published an article on his World Wide Words site on this subject. | |||
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quote: For line seven, "ultrasophisticate" might satisfy his objections. | |||
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Perfecto! Thanks, Hab! However, knowing Shu, he will say, "Better, but still not perfect." I couldn't find "ultrasophisicate" in Onelook (though "ultrasophisticated" exists). Shu is a stickler for that 6-syllable word being a real word.  | |||
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Thanks for the heads up on Bob Hale's German Doppeldaktylgedichte. I'll be posting a response in kind later. | |||
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I think you might change line 4 to "Camelot days" too, for scansion purposes. Now you have quote: No "ultrasophisticate" in onelook.com but one hit on Google and fourteen for "ultra-sophisticate." Remember Joe E Brown's line at the very end of Some Like It Hot ? "Nobody's perfect!" [This message was edited by haberdasher on Mon Feb 9th, 2004 at 9:54.] | |||
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Sadly, CJ, it is not. It is to be somewhere where the beer is even better than that in Chicago! Richard English | |||
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quote: Milwaukee? That's still do-able. | |||
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I understand that Shlitz "The beer that made Milwaukee famous" achieved this distinction because it supplied Chicago with beer after the City was largely destroyed by fire (or was it fi-yer) and there was no water to drink. Shlitz is, of course, a very close approximation to pure water. Richard English [This message was edited by Richard English on Mon Feb 9th, 2004 at 13:31.] | |||
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quote:It may well be a matter of semantics. As a literalist, I just don't see that anyone says "world" with strictly one syllable. Shuftitz says it is one syllable, and yet when he says it, it is two. However, CJ, then I would expect you to call "fire" one syllable, so go figure. Shufitz and I have the very distinct pleasure of coming to London in April. I will surely let you know how Bob, arnie and Richard all say "world" and "fire." | |||
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In my language, all of these words are pronounced with TWO syllables buyer choir dyer fire flier friar gyre higher hire lyre mire nigher pyre sire squire tire wire world whirled In the rural-southern dialect where I grew up, "tire" was pronounced exactly like "tar." That's ONE syllable. "Tire" is tie-er. That's TWO. | |||
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Jerry, I am with you! | |||
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Well here is my first try in answer to Bob Hale's German DD above. Jiggery-pokery Bobbius Robustus setzte in Verse die bis dactylique d'Angleterre en hiver lehnwörterängstliche misit hæc verba ad Jheem on the quick. Jiggery pokery Bob Hale poetizes his dactyls twice from England in winter fear-of-loanwords-ly he sent such words to Jheem on the quick. | |||
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Bravo, Jheem! You two are waaaay out of my league! | |||
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quote:I like it! | |||
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Inspired by Amity Shales where she talks about Yale suffering from mediocrity after WWII. It seemed to care more about class than quality then and excluded nearly all qualified blacks, many qualified Jews and some qualified Catholics. It routinely rejected pupils from public schools, on principle. It lagged behind Harvard, at that time, in accepting the best and the brightest. However, 2 successive presidents in the sixties insisted that Yale open its gates wider to achieve greatness, and that has brought it back to greatness. Boolala, Boolala Yale University, It's academcially One of the best. That's due to policy During the sixties where, Meritocractically, Bright ones were blessed! | |||
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Oohh, I just scrolled up and read where CJ was massaging my DD... and I never even felt it. | |||
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Valentines, Valentines Passionate interludes, Lovers romantically, Relish the day! Flirting, seducing and Kissing your sweetheart with Sentimentality. Come on and play! [This message was edited by Kalleh on Fri Feb 13th, 2004 at 21:03.] | |||
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I love it, Kalleh! 5-stars!! Everyone...stay sweet! | |||
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Hokery pokery Oliver Wendell Holmes Wanting contentment went Off the deep end. Like me, he was asking, Oversolicitous, "A little bit more than I'll ever spend." | |||
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quote: jheem's jaheemery "Bobbious Robustus" Two weeks belatedly Now I espy. "Like it!" says arnie, and I add my comment with Retroactivity: "Sir, so do I!" | |||
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