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For those who can see the discussion programmes by Robert Kilroy Silk that we have on BBC 1 TV on weekday mornings, I recommend a programme that was broadcast some weeks ago (I feel sure there is an archive of repeats somewhere) This was about "high class" prostitutes and there were two girls (we tend to refer to them as "call-girls" over here - I don't know what they're called in the USA) both of whom claimed that they had chosen their career deliberately. One was a university lecturer in media studies with a PhD, who claimed she could earn more in one evening in a London hotel bar than she earned in a week at the university. The other was a South African who had come to London make enough money to buy a good property in South Africa and settle down - which goal she claimed she would have achieved by that weekend. She was earning around £15,000 ($23,758) every month - far more than she could have earned in any "legitimate" profession. There was, of course, the usual hysterical commentary from those who had never done the work and those who had only seen the ravages that the profession can undoubtedly exact from those operating in its worst areas. However, these two girls, who were doing the job, though choice, remained calm and it was so clear that they (and only they) were in a position to know what they were talking about whereas their detractors were not. Richard English | |||
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. [This message was edited by TrossL on Thu Jun 5th, 2003 at 7:18.] | |||
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quote: Coming Around the Far Turn, Actually It's CJ by a Nose! Our Kalleh's most burning ambition Is reaching a supreme position. She says, as disrupter, No one is corrupter?! My God, what a strange competition!! Sorry K. but in this particular race I see you and R.E. finishing well out of the money. Good limerick, though - a "B" Regarding being judgemental, no sweat. We all have our opinions. I firmly believe that anything consenting adults to in private is perfectly OK. The three key words there, of course, are "consenting," "adults," and "private." Alter any one of the three and it's a whole other matter entirely. To link this general topic more closely to the subject of language, have you ever noticed that the prostitutes you mention (the poor, the beaten and diseased, the desperate and homeless etc) are most often seen as "whores" while those women who view their profession as being worthy of respectability (TrossL and the two R.E. mentions) are seen simply as "sex workers"? And of course, go up a couple more rungs on the status ladder to the woman who has acheived great success in this field (Heidi Fleiss, for example) and what is the term we use for her? "Celebrity"! | |||
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Interesting point, CJ (pun not intended)  .Dear TrossL, I value you here. You even drink Richard's fine beer! You deserve my respect, For your intellect, And your honesty, too, is most clear! [Meter-challenged, I know, but what's a woman to do? Just keep me out of those double dactyls!  TrossL, "my bad".] | |||
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quote: Yeah, I thought it might be two words, but I found it on dictionary.com listed as one word and assumed it was from the AHD. My mistake. That was from WordNet, Princeton University. The AHD and Webster's Revised Unabridged list it as two words. The OED lists it both ways (et cetera first). Yes, I think et ceterer is betterer. The OED says a rhyme is an "agreement in the terminal sounds of two or more words or metrical lines, such that (in English prosody) the last stressed vowel and any sounds following it are the same, while the sound or sounds preceding are different. Examples: which, rich; grew, too; peace, increase; leather, together; descended, extended. Do you agree with that? It goes on to say "Imperfect rimes are tolerated to a large extent in English, e.g. phase, race; did, seed; among these are such as rime only to the eye, as loved, proved; death, heath. The term is sometimes extended to include assonance and even alliteration (initial or head rime). I don't agree that any of these examples rhyme, though some do. I do agree that certain types of alliteration, such as "tops, pops, knot can be considered "imperfect rimes". Apparently you don't. At the same time, you think lover and mother rhyme, admitting it is "slightly flawed". And "upom us"? Tinman [This message was edited by tinman on Fri Feb 28th, 2003 at 0:53.] | |||
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quote: [This message was edited by C J Strolin on Fri Feb 28th, 2003 at 13:15.] | |||
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quote: OK, this one started out as a "B+" but I'm paring it down to a "B-" for your repeated self-knocking statements about your (non-existent) inability to write limericks. This is another beauty! If you want to even out the meter, all that is required is the word "fine" before "intellect" and you're good to go. Your assignment is (are you sitting?) A DOUBLE DACTYL to be posted on the appropriate thread! (BWAAH-HAAA-HAAA-HAAAAAA!!!) You can do it! (And that goes to all the rest of you out there. The tougher they are, the greater the satisfaction when you pull one together!) TKHS | |||
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Ah, but CJ, even some of the best poets use these "improper rhymes" from time to time. Gray's "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard" is one of my favourite poems but even that contains the rhymes toil - smile command - land beech - stretch and abode - God John Betjeman's "A Subaltern's Love Song" rhymes the heroine's name "Dunn" with both "won" and "one" in different verses. Philip Larkin's "Toads" has rhymes that are so perverse that you'd wonder if it's meant to rhyme at all except for the fact that it's so consistantly slightly "wrong" that it's clearly intentional. work - pitchfork, life - off, soils - bills, poison - proportion, wits - louts, lispers - paupers, lanes - sardines, bucket - like it, feet - yet, wives - starves, enough - stuff (hurrah - a rhyme !), pension - made on, like - luck, too - snow, blarney - money, getting - sitting, other - either and truth - both. Vescere bracis meis. Read all about my travels around the world here. [This message was edited by BobHale on Fri Feb 28th, 2003 at 14:47.] | |||
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quote: And just think of how good "Gray's Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard," "A Subaltern's Love Song," and "Toads" might have been if I had been around to help with the rhymes. Maybe, for the good of poetry in general, I should rewrite them. "Blarney/money," indeed! TKHS | |||
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quote: Please feel free to rewrite as much Betjeman as your whim dictates. I've never liked his poetry anyway. It's far too twee and middle class for my taste. As a Poet Laureate he'd have made a damned fine writer of birthday card verses. I'd much prefer it though if you'd just accept the failings of such "lesser" poets as Gray and Larkin though - after all, how could they be expected to live up to the Strolinian ideal when they had never even heard of you ?  Vescere bracis meis. Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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There once was a girl from Oak Pass Who had a magnificent ass, But 'twas not round and pink As you'd probably think, 'Twas gray, had long ears and ate grass. | |||
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That lass and her succulent ass Did it chew, or toke the grass? We could ask old Bob Hale But he'd probably fail Lookin up to the twee middle class | |||
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Ah good. So pleased to get back to feelthy limericks rather than erudite commentary. quote: TrossL, your wonderful entry puts me in mind of two more, unfortunately non-original. One, from the days before zippers were invented, uses the same -eeling rhyme. The other ... well, it gently suggests that your phrase "too revealing" is perhaps oxymoronic.  There once was maid from Darjeeling, Who danced with such exquisite feeling, Not a sound could be heard, Not a peep; not a word -- Just the fly-buttons hitting the ceiling. There once was a maid on the Corso, Who displayed rather much of her torso. But I freely confess No one called out for less, And some were in favor of moreso. | |||
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CJ debates the rhymes, Charging rhetorical crimes. While Kalleh complains Of metering pains, And Tinman's authority climbs. With all those "ass" limericks, how about one with callipygian? | |||
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A girl callipygiously handsome Was stuck in a sleeping room transom When she offered much gold For release, she was told That the view was worth more than the ransom. | |||
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US English speakers have more scope here, since, although we rhyme "ass" and "lass", the expression ass is reserved for the four-legged type. The pink and rounded type is pronounced here with a long "a" and its spelling has changed to reflect that - "arse". This also rhymes with "grass" as we say it. Thus the clever Limerick: There was a young fellow called Lancelot at whom all the girls glanced askance a lot. Whenever he'd pass a good-looking lass the front of his pants would advance a lot. is clearly of US origin. Not only are the rhymes transatlantic but also we wear our pants underneath our outer garments, the usual name for the male outer variety being "trousers". Thus the advancement referred to would not, in the UK, be visible and the askance glances not thus engendered! Richard English [This message was edited by Richard English on Sat Mar 1st, 2003 at 0:20.] | |||
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The Curate of Kew and the Knight, Lancelot, in the end got it right. Their well zipped-up flies Now do not catch the eyes Of the pew girls, engendering fright. ~~~ jerry | |||
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Oh--I am loving these! My fine Border Collie named Flirt Loves dearly to play in the dirt. Just throw her a ball, And fun will befall, With Lake Michigan as her dessert! As for "asses": Shufitz is quite callipygous As well as extremely prestigious. Although an old fart, He's amazingly smarth. While a lawyer, he's not litigious. Here's one of my favorite "feelthy" ones, though out of respect for the ladies and gentlemen on the site, I will use "blank" for the naughty words. You'll be able to figure them out! (If not, I will buy you a Hog's Back T.E.A.) Nymphomaniacal Jill Used a dynamite stick for a thrill. They found her "blank" In North Carolina And bits of her "blank" in Brazil! | |||
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Kalleh, your nymphomaniacal Jill had a cousin named Alice She used dynamite for a phallus They found her "blank" In NC And some parts of Alice in Dallas. ~~~ jerry | |||
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Jerry, I've heard your's with the last line reading, [i]And her a**hole in Buckingham Palace." And your "girl callipygiously handsome" reminds me of this one: There once was a lady named Ransom, Who was ravished five times in a hansom. When she called out for more, A voice from the floor Cried, "Lady, I'm Simpson, not Samson!" | |||
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Lady Callipygian A lady is quite inspirational. Her callipygian shape is sensational. As she walks by You can hear a great sigh, As I entertain thoughts recreational. Tinman | |||
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A helicopter commuter Said, "Something's amiss with my scooter While they tuned up my motor They re-routed my rotor Perhaps I should call Rotor Router." Tinman's confessed thoughts of lust While admittedly fitting and just Are inspired by the thighs When comparing the sighs Over asses to asses, busts to busts (( callipygian ..... collie pigeon ... Hmmm )) ~~~ jerry [This message was edited by jerry thomas on Sat Mar 1st, 2003 at 21:09.] | |||
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Young Stephanie Souders of Worcester, A self-confessed bellicose borcester, Promotes the demise Of Iraqui bad guys. Perhaps Mister Cheney sedorcester. [This message was edited by jerry thomas on Sun Mar 2nd, 2003 at 10:14.] | |||
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Lancelot's lawyer's delight Was in making lawsuits come out right. His internist, in turn Showed his greatest concern For the things that went bump in the knight. ~~~ jerry | |||
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quote: The second line, besides having a halting meter which causes the reader to stumble right at the first, presents a textual problem. Unless you are aware of a marijuana cigarette that can be inhaled in suppository form (and God knows, in the interest of furthering science, I'm willing to be a guinea pig here) I'm confused. You describe the girl's ass as "succulent," which would seem to suggest her buttocks, but then ask if "toked" ("inhaled" for the benefit of R.E.) the grass. If this is the case, after toking how might she pass the joint to the next person? The mind boggles! Also points off for the gratuitous labling of Bob Hale as "old" just for the sake of meter. "We could ask Mr. Hale" would have worked just as well without disparaging his age. Also very minor points off for no punctuation in line 1 and no apostrophe in "Lookin" but no major big deal there. Final points off for lack of understandability, for me anyway. What exactly is "twee"? It looks like something that might be uttered by 4/5 of a bird. Overall, a "D+" Not up to your own standards, J.T.! | |||
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quote: When those metering pains start coming less than five minutes apart, you're about to give birth to a limerick. Perfect meter in lines 3, 4, and 5. A "B" here but where's your double dactyl?? | |||
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quote: If She's a Hooker, You're Both in Luck! And you say to her "How are you, Honey?" In a way you think dapper and funny. If her answer's a sigh It is pro'bly caused by, The fact that she thinks you have money! "B+" for each. TKHS | |||
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Twee is a perfectly good UK English word which means "affectedly dainty or quaint". It is a derogatory expression and is used perfectly correctly in this Limerick if (as some justifiably might) we regard the middle classes as "quaint". Richard English | |||
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quote: quote: If you had looked in the AHD, you'd have found that it means niminy-piminy. One with educability can acieve understandability by looking up the word twee in the AHD or OED. No, it's not a limerick, but it's appropriate. Educability A man with educability Lacks understandability. He can find the word twee In a dictionary: The AHD or OED. Tinman | |||
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. [This message was edited by TrossL on Thu Jun 5th, 2003 at 7:19.] | |||
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There is an article about twee on the Word Detective Web site. Quite why ignorance on the part of the reader should be a reason for the limerick being accorded a lower grade I don't understand. Especially as this is a forum about words... | |||
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I was unaware of the word "twee" until it was used here in the phrase "twee and middle class." So I looked it up and thus enhanced my own inventory of English words. Do we need to submit a vocabulary list to the King Judge of Limericks to make sure we don't go beyond the limits of his limited vocabulary and thus earn lower grades ??? All seriousness aside, I'd guess that Mr. Strolin is doing the best he can under the circumstances. Aren't we all ?? Poems are made by you and me, and some of us can understand "twee." ~~~ jerry | |||
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An interesting prefix is "orth," Rarely mentioned down south or up north It tells how we should stand When we hear the command Expressed by today's date: "March Forth !!" | |||
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Jerry, love your style! Do I feel a double dactyl coming on with niminy-piminy? | |||
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quote: You're right, it works better as a four-line poem than as a limerick. "He can FIND the word TWEE in the DICtionaREE" has that certain ring of "UNambiGUously" to it. The points off (minor ones) were for the use of a word I'm pretty sure was a new one to most of us on this board. And yes, Arnie, my vocabulary is once again enriched. "Twee." Oh, yeah. I'm sure that one is going to pop up in conversation any day now. I've noticed that my grading in the past couple of weeks has been a bit on the generous side and yet still occasionally envokes the proverbial slings and arrows etc. Uprisings and beheadings have been born from less. With this in mind, I must assess your recent effort a "C-" in part due to you using the title "Educability" (the trait of being able to be educated) instead of "Educatability" which, while not actually a word, is a far better representation of what the word should be. As artists it is we who stretch the boundaries of what is right and what is possible with our glorious language. The OED is your servant, not your master! Be bold! Be daring! Breathe deeply the heady fumes of inspiration and you shall be amply rewarded! This piece, for example, could have been a "C+"!! The King has spoken. | |||
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quote: Hmmmm... Part One, as is, a "B-" with minor points off for lack of punctuation (Why did you leave off the periods in lines 1 & 2 and the [optional] comma from line 3?) but more because the meter is great right up to that last line where it just falls down. How would you feel about the last line "These are easier (much!) to compile"? With the added "(much!)" you not only smooth over the rough spot, metrically, but also I think it helps divert the reader's attention away from the misuse of the word "compile." You're not compiling the limerick, you're composing it. With corrections an "A-". Part Two, first off: Applause, applause, applause!! Very well done, an "A-". I would have started it out with "I confess CJ's grades..." to make it a complete sentence and then there are those missing periods again. (And no, I'll skip all pregnancy wiscracks as being too easy.) The second line? Yes, I do, but I like to think that I zone in on all the strong points as well. I suppose there's just so much info you can cram into a limerick. Part Three, a strong "A" largely for the point you make. I'm in full agreement. When I perform in front of an audience, if I enjoy what I have presented but they just sit there with glazed eyes, I consider it a successful show. TKHS | |||
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quote: Good meter and rhyme, interesting premise, topical. As is, a "B". When read by someone doing an impression of "Twilight Zone" host Rod Serling, an "A". | |||
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I concur with most, BUT, not the compile part because according to dictionary.com, one of the definitions is: to put together. I was, and do, put together limericks. So there you go. Thanks for the "A" grades though. | |||
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Ummm... Not quite. The complete dictionary.com definition is "to put together or compose from materials gathered from several sources: compile an encyclodedia." "Compose" was the word you were looking for here but that, of course, would have screwed up the rhyme. I do notice farther down, however, that another definition is "To write; to compose [Obs.] -- Sir W. Temple." I assume you'd rather not base your argument on an obsolete term. And just as a sidenote, I wonder if this knighted gentleman is any relation to Shirley Temple, the all-time Queen of Twee. (Well, Huh! It did come up in conversation!) | |||
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CJ- But I do compile from several different sources. I have an open window for dictionary.com, RhymeZone and OneLook at all times, and flip back and forth through them all. (Note to self... May have just blown cover.) | |||
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quote: Wow! C J's rewriting the dictionary! How lucky we are! quote: And he has generously offered to tell us what's "right"! quote: The king has ranted! C J, when do you think you'll be finished rewriting the OED? A month or two? Tinman | |||
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quote: Not only that, he's rewriting the OED rather than the AHD. As a humble Englishman I can only thank him for his efforts to bring our poor benighted language up to the plateau of linguistic development that is "American". Thank's CJ.  Vescere bracis meis. Read all about my travels around the world here. | |||
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CJ, I have to agree with TrossL; I also compile my limericks--and we won't even mention the un-Godly amounts of time I've spent on the one measly double dactyl I did! Limerick writing is fun. Double dactyls I truly do shun! They drive me so crazy; Perhaps I'm just lazy. After all, I'm not Lord Tennyson! | |||
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. [This message was edited by TrossL on Thu Jun 5th, 2003 at 7:14.] | |||
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This group is in terrible trouble We're in danger of bursting our bubble Dactyl clients out there Say they want simple fare, And most of our dactyls are double ~~~ jerry | |||
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One More Page Will Be the Equivalent of My Golden Jubilee! One thread, it's odd, quickly ages, While another intently engages Its posters instead, Like this limerick thread. Almost 2,000 views and four pages!! I do, however, see the double dactyl thread as threatening to sap the energy from this one. Despite the occasional DD (can we agree on that abbreviation?) that flows effortlessly in a minute or two, most of these damn things take time!! The King is concerned... | |||
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